Oswald "Ossie" Morris & Film - Part 5 (penultimate extract)
This is the fifth extract from an interview with Ossie Morris (see Part 1, posted 10th November 2008, with introductory details.)
All of the interview is Copyright © Oswald Morris & Barrie Gordon 2008.
Barrie (B): ... where have you been in the world with these films and filming?
Ossie (O): Oh! God, I've been all over the place ... I mean, I've been to France, I've been to French Equatorial Africa, I've been to the Chad, I've been to Cairo, I've been to Italy, I've been into Germany err, err. I've been to Canada, I've been into America of course ... not Los Angeles. I was never allowed to work in Los Angeles ...
B: Why were you not?
O: Because the unions were so ... I wouldn't have normally have been allowed to work in New York if it hadn't have been for Sidney (Lumet), but once I got in there, Sidney broke the unions and very shortly after that a cameraman came out from England to do one - Billy Williams - and he took over the apartment I had ... so we've broken the ground there, you see.
B: OK, I want to go back to the film society and the films. What interests you ... what is it generally about film that attracts you to it ... I know it's the basic thing but ...?
O: No, it's a very simple thing - originality, something new, fresh ideas. All the time I was filming I was trying to think of something new in the visual approach to it, and if I did 2 or 3 of the same type of film I got bored, and I found I was getting lazy, and it was dull.
B: You wanted to keep the changes! ...
O: Keep the changes going.
B: No, I have heard that you had an interesting technique in 'Fiddler on the Roof'.
O: Oh yes.
B: If you could tell me about that.
O: Yes, well 'Fiddler on the...', here's the story. Norman Jewison called me out of the blue, he'd seen ... I think he'd seen 'Oliver!' and he wanted me to do it, and I went up to The Dorchester to see him, and he said 'I'd love you to film my 'Fiddler'. I said 'yes, I'd like to do it very much'. He said 'fine'. He said 'now I'm going to go on location and check the locations, but you can't come because you're still working on ... I said 'yes', ... 'but' he said 'what we'll do, I promise you, before the film starts, a fortnight or 3 weeks beforehand, you and I will go out there again, and we will go through locations and make sure you're happy with them or you got any suggestions', and that's what we did, and he said 'why don't you bring a crew out and do some tests for me. ... he said 'I'll always have a week off the week before we start filming just to recharge my batteries'. He said ' what I'm going to do, we'll go out there and we'll check the locations and then I want you to stay there with your crew and film some tests'. We got three of the daughters out there, who were ... they were cheap, well not expensive ... you can't take expensive actors out there ...
B: Where were we here, sorry?
O: This was in Zagreb.
B: Oh, right, OK.
O: Well it's a place called Lekenik, which ... we stayed in Zagreb, what was then Yugoslavia, and he said 'why don't you do some tests with the girls - they'll have the costumes'. I was tipped off - which I didn't need to be - by Pat Palmer, executive producer ... associate producer, 'shoot as much film as you can, the more you shoot the more Norman will like it'. So, in those days, it had to come back to England to be processed. Now, Norman went on a Saturday, and we knew that the last lot of tests we could shoot would be the following Thursday because they had to go to London to be processed and come back by Saturday. So I shot masses of film, all different ways ... now, colour style ... I?
B: I mean, the film you were shooting was ... just generally of the area or ... ?
O: No, the sets that we chose ... the location, because they were building sets out there as well and they were using location. So I was going round to these. In other words I was doing a documentary ... that was the word I was thinking of ... the 'Fiddler' film ... I couldn't think of the word - it's a documentary, runs for 90 minutes, where you see me, remember? ... I couldn't think of the word. Anyway, so, off Norman went, and I shot a lot of film. Now, what did I do? As we went round I noticed how poor it was, urgh, it's so poor, all the houses had clay floors - they were all brown - the colour of the landscape. All the poor peasants were brown - their faces were brown impinged with the colour of the ground, so they never washed you know - not that I'd know that. Now, how in hell, this is something, how can we get this ... So, I knew that we had gauzes, what we call gauzes. We had white gazes and black gauzes, and we had colour filters but nothing brown. So, I thought - ladies silk stockings. So I sent the clapper-boy into Zagreb (we were out in location) I said 'buy a dozen pairs of ladies silk stockings, the biggest sizes you can get' because in those days they had a seam down the back of them - they don't do it now, and I needed a big area of stocking to put over the lenses - that's what I was going to do. So we brought this lot back and we stuck this on the front. Now, I thought ... nothing of it, I was doing it, but apparently everybody thinks it was the most heroic ... daring ...
B: ... needs must ... but it was obviously very effective!
O: Yes, I never thought it was going to fail. 'How did you dare to do that without the director'. I said 'nothing to do with him, he asked me to produce a test'. He doesn't have to know. He didn't even know till we were shooting. He said 'what's that going on in the camera?' I said 'that's a lady's silk stocking'. He said 'have you been shooting this through a lady's silk stocking?' and I said 'yes' ... and he didn't say why didn't you tell me because he didn't want ...
B: It wasn't available, so you made it!
O: I said 'Norman, you like the rushes, don't you?' 'Yeah, I think they look great, I'm amazed you're doing it through a lady's silk stocking'.
B: So, otherwise everything would have been a bit too bright?
O: Oh yes, yes ... and that got me the Academy Award in the end ...
B: ... coming back to the films of the Society, the film society, and we mentioned the Sidney Lumet one. Then there was a film we saw 'The Edge of Heaven' a German/Turkish ...
O: Oh, I thought that was wonderful.
B: It was very good, wasn't it.
O: Yes, that's where the man starts in the prostitute's house, isn't it, that's right, yes, and then the prostitute comes in and err, ... prostitute comes in and lives with him, and in the end it all goes ...
B: But anyway ...
O: I'm sure it's ...
B: What did you particularly remember from that ... what did you ... enjoy?
O: It doesn't necessarily mean I've got the right one. It was the simplicity of the shoot. When you see modern films and when you see the equipment they take with them - my mind boggles ... half this equipment they never use, but it's all on hire and they keep it there all the time and the cost for the film rockets. Now, 'Edge of Heaven' was done in the simple, old fashioned way, with a camera, minimum crew, minimum lights but a wonderful story, beautifully scripted, and excellent acting, and a very talented director. The set-ups are unbelievably simple, daringly simple, and you think, how he had the nerve to do that I don't know, but it worked, and it was going back to old values, and that's what I admired about ...
B: And the next one, just going through the ones up-to-date ... if you saw all of those, 'This is England', the Shane Meadows one, do you remember that?
O: Is that the skinhead thing?
B: Yes
O: No, I didn't see that one.
B: 'The Kite Runner' which was based on the book.
O: Oh, 'Kite Runner', yes. Now, I never read the book. I though 'The Kite Runner' was very good, but the vibes I got afterwards, was the people who read the book, found the film disappointing. People who hadn't read the book, thought it was wonderful. Answer: you either go to see a film or read the book - make up your mind.
B: (laughing) Not both!
O: No, not both, no.
B: Sometimes surely, they get the essence of a book into a film without spoiling it really ... you know what I mean, it's ...
O: Well ...
B: .... a book ... even into a different location but ...
O: The adapter for the screenplay ... does ... he doesn't care about whether people have read the book or not, he's making a screenplay and it's extraordinary ... that definitely happened, that the people who have not read the book, thought the film was wonderful ... those that read the book, the next week I asked them they thought it was disappointing, not as good as the book.
B: No, I know what you mean. 'Charlie Wilson's War'.
O: 'Charlie Wilson's War', that was Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts. I thought it was quite good ... I thought Tom Hanks - once you've seen Tom Hanks, you know what's coming ... you know ...
B: Similar roles?
O: Similar roles, so OK.
B: And the last one, which I saw, and I know you've seen twice, 'The Orphanage'.
O: Oh, yes.
B: Directed by J.A. Bayona and produced by Guillermo del Toro, who directed 'Pan's Labyrinth', which we saw last season. Tell me about 'The Orphanage'.
O: Oh 'The Orphanage' I thought was brilliant. Now, why did I think it was brilliant? Because it is a very difficult subject. When you come to trying to portray on the screen the illusions a woman has, that is very, very difficult for the following reason: a film takes anything up to 8, 10, 12 weeks, sometimes 14 weeks to make - you do a little section every day, maybe 2 or 3 minutes. You've got to slot that ... and you can't always do it in order because ...
B: You mean the consistency between those ...
O: So, the director hasn't got a flow, or feel for the film ... because it's all bits and pieces, and to get this illusion sequence right is very, very difficult because you ... when you see it at the time, you tend to think, God that's not enough - people aren't going to pick it up and you over-do it and you put, in the case of this with the girls ... the children in the background, in the shadow ... I think they got it spot on, but I think that when they saw it, they wondered whether they'd made the point enough, whether the audience were going to notice it.
B: Yes.
O: And this is the difficult part, and I thought they got it spot on, and that is very, very ...
B: And also it WAS a suspenseful film, and I don't always want to see a film that's always a lot in the dark, but this was mixing the dark and the ...
O: Oh, yes.
B: The shot's were quite brilliant?
O: Yes.
... to be continued .....
All of the interview is Copyright © Oswald Morris & Barrie Gordon 2008.
Barrie (B): ... where have you been in the world with these films and filming?
Ossie (O): Oh! God, I've been all over the place ... I mean, I've been to France, I've been to French Equatorial Africa, I've been to the Chad, I've been to Cairo, I've been to Italy, I've been into Germany err, err. I've been to Canada, I've been into America of course ... not Los Angeles. I was never allowed to work in Los Angeles ...
B: Why were you not?
O: Because the unions were so ... I wouldn't have normally have been allowed to work in New York if it hadn't have been for Sidney (Lumet), but once I got in there, Sidney broke the unions and very shortly after that a cameraman came out from England to do one - Billy Williams - and he took over the apartment I had ... so we've broken the ground there, you see.
B: OK, I want to go back to the film society and the films. What interests you ... what is it generally about film that attracts you to it ... I know it's the basic thing but ...?
O: No, it's a very simple thing - originality, something new, fresh ideas. All the time I was filming I was trying to think of something new in the visual approach to it, and if I did 2 or 3 of the same type of film I got bored, and I found I was getting lazy, and it was dull.
B: You wanted to keep the changes! ...
O: Keep the changes going.
B: No, I have heard that you had an interesting technique in 'Fiddler on the Roof'.
O: Oh yes.
B: If you could tell me about that.
O: Yes, well 'Fiddler on the...', here's the story. Norman Jewison called me out of the blue, he'd seen ... I think he'd seen 'Oliver!' and he wanted me to do it, and I went up to The Dorchester to see him, and he said 'I'd love you to film my 'Fiddler'. I said 'yes, I'd like to do it very much'. He said 'fine'. He said 'now I'm going to go on location and check the locations, but you can't come because you're still working on ... I said 'yes', ... 'but' he said 'what we'll do, I promise you, before the film starts, a fortnight or 3 weeks beforehand, you and I will go out there again, and we will go through locations and make sure you're happy with them or you got any suggestions', and that's what we did, and he said 'why don't you bring a crew out and do some tests for me. ... he said 'I'll always have a week off the week before we start filming just to recharge my batteries'. He said ' what I'm going to do, we'll go out there and we'll check the locations and then I want you to stay there with your crew and film some tests'. We got three of the daughters out there, who were ... they were cheap, well not expensive ... you can't take expensive actors out there ...
B: Where were we here, sorry?
O: This was in Zagreb.
B: Oh, right, OK.
O: Well it's a place called Lekenik, which ... we stayed in Zagreb, what was then Yugoslavia, and he said 'why don't you do some tests with the girls - they'll have the costumes'. I was tipped off - which I didn't need to be - by Pat Palmer, executive producer ... associate producer, 'shoot as much film as you can, the more you shoot the more Norman will like it'. So, in those days, it had to come back to England to be processed. Now, Norman went on a Saturday, and we knew that the last lot of tests we could shoot would be the following Thursday because they had to go to London to be processed and come back by Saturday. So I shot masses of film, all different ways ... now, colour style ... I?
B: I mean, the film you were shooting was ... just generally of the area or ... ?
O: No, the sets that we chose ... the location, because they were building sets out there as well and they were using location. So I was going round to these. In other words I was doing a documentary ... that was the word I was thinking of ... the 'Fiddler' film ... I couldn't think of the word - it's a documentary, runs for 90 minutes, where you see me, remember? ... I couldn't think of the word. Anyway, so, off Norman went, and I shot a lot of film. Now, what did I do? As we went round I noticed how poor it was, urgh, it's so poor, all the houses had clay floors - they were all brown - the colour of the landscape. All the poor peasants were brown - their faces were brown impinged with the colour of the ground, so they never washed you know - not that I'd know that. Now, how in hell, this is something, how can we get this ... So, I knew that we had gauzes, what we call gauzes. We had white gazes and black gauzes, and we had colour filters but nothing brown. So, I thought - ladies silk stockings. So I sent the clapper-boy into Zagreb (we were out in location) I said 'buy a dozen pairs of ladies silk stockings, the biggest sizes you can get' because in those days they had a seam down the back of them - they don't do it now, and I needed a big area of stocking to put over the lenses - that's what I was going to do. So we brought this lot back and we stuck this on the front. Now, I thought ... nothing of it, I was doing it, but apparently everybody thinks it was the most heroic ... daring ...
B: ... needs must ... but it was obviously very effective!
O: Yes, I never thought it was going to fail. 'How did you dare to do that without the director'. I said 'nothing to do with him, he asked me to produce a test'. He doesn't have to know. He didn't even know till we were shooting. He said 'what's that going on in the camera?' I said 'that's a lady's silk stocking'. He said 'have you been shooting this through a lady's silk stocking?' and I said 'yes' ... and he didn't say why didn't you tell me because he didn't want ...
B: It wasn't available, so you made it!
O: I said 'Norman, you like the rushes, don't you?' 'Yeah, I think they look great, I'm amazed you're doing it through a lady's silk stocking'.
B: So, otherwise everything would have been a bit too bright?
O: Oh yes, yes ... and that got me the Academy Award in the end ...
B: ... coming back to the films of the Society, the film society, and we mentioned the Sidney Lumet one. Then there was a film we saw 'The Edge of Heaven' a German/Turkish ...
O: Oh, I thought that was wonderful.
B: It was very good, wasn't it.
O: Yes, that's where the man starts in the prostitute's house, isn't it, that's right, yes, and then the prostitute comes in and err, ... prostitute comes in and lives with him, and in the end it all goes ...
B: But anyway ...
O: I'm sure it's ...
B: What did you particularly remember from that ... what did you ... enjoy?
O: It doesn't necessarily mean I've got the right one. It was the simplicity of the shoot. When you see modern films and when you see the equipment they take with them - my mind boggles ... half this equipment they never use, but it's all on hire and they keep it there all the time and the cost for the film rockets. Now, 'Edge of Heaven' was done in the simple, old fashioned way, with a camera, minimum crew, minimum lights but a wonderful story, beautifully scripted, and excellent acting, and a very talented director. The set-ups are unbelievably simple, daringly simple, and you think, how he had the nerve to do that I don't know, but it worked, and it was going back to old values, and that's what I admired about ...
B: And the next one, just going through the ones up-to-date ... if you saw all of those, 'This is England', the Shane Meadows one, do you remember that?
O: Is that the skinhead thing?
B: Yes
O: No, I didn't see that one.
B: 'The Kite Runner' which was based on the book.
O: Oh, 'Kite Runner', yes. Now, I never read the book. I though 'The Kite Runner' was very good, but the vibes I got afterwards, was the people who read the book, found the film disappointing. People who hadn't read the book, thought it was wonderful. Answer: you either go to see a film or read the book - make up your mind.
B: (laughing) Not both!
O: No, not both, no.
B: Sometimes surely, they get the essence of a book into a film without spoiling it really ... you know what I mean, it's ...
O: Well ...
B: .... a book ... even into a different location but ...
O: The adapter for the screenplay ... does ... he doesn't care about whether people have read the book or not, he's making a screenplay and it's extraordinary ... that definitely happened, that the people who have not read the book, thought the film was wonderful ... those that read the book, the next week I asked them they thought it was disappointing, not as good as the book.
B: No, I know what you mean. 'Charlie Wilson's War'.
O: 'Charlie Wilson's War', that was Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts. I thought it was quite good ... I thought Tom Hanks - once you've seen Tom Hanks, you know what's coming ... you know ...
B: Similar roles?
O: Similar roles, so OK.
B: And the last one, which I saw, and I know you've seen twice, 'The Orphanage'.
O: Oh, yes.
B: Directed by J.A. Bayona and produced by Guillermo del Toro, who directed 'Pan's Labyrinth', which we saw last season. Tell me about 'The Orphanage'.
O: Oh 'The Orphanage' I thought was brilliant. Now, why did I think it was brilliant? Because it is a very difficult subject. When you come to trying to portray on the screen the illusions a woman has, that is very, very difficult for the following reason: a film takes anything up to 8, 10, 12 weeks, sometimes 14 weeks to make - you do a little section every day, maybe 2 or 3 minutes. You've got to slot that ... and you can't always do it in order because ...
B: You mean the consistency between those ...
O: So, the director hasn't got a flow, or feel for the film ... because it's all bits and pieces, and to get this illusion sequence right is very, very difficult because you ... when you see it at the time, you tend to think, God that's not enough - people aren't going to pick it up and you over-do it and you put, in the case of this with the girls ... the children in the background, in the shadow ... I think they got it spot on, but I think that when they saw it, they wondered whether they'd made the point enough, whether the audience were going to notice it.
B: Yes.
O: And this is the difficult part, and I thought they got it spot on, and that is very, very ...
B: And also it WAS a suspenseful film, and I don't always want to see a film that's always a lot in the dark, but this was mixing the dark and the ...
O: Oh, yes.
B: The shot's were quite brilliant?
O: Yes.
... to be continued .....
posted by Barrie Gordon at 5:24 PM
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